Is it that Chandin Ramchandin in Cereus Blooms at Night can be considered only either as a perpetrator or as a victim? Is he both? Discuss what he is a perpetrator and/or a victim of.
I think that Chandin Ramchandin is more of a perpetrator than a victim. He is a victim because his wife left him and ran away with her female lover. He became a single father of two daughters. This is unfair to him but it does not justify his heartless and brutal actions towards his daughters. He deserves no pity for the ruthless things he did to his own flesh and blood. He is a criminal and he deserves to die the way he did at the end of the novel by the hands of the one whom tortured and oppressed for so long. Chandin is the true criminal and the novel's biggest coward. He is sinister, weak and uses his manhood as a weapon to oppress his own children by sexually, physically and mentally abusing them. Mala was wrongly accused and I think she is the hero in the story. She is resilient, strong, patient and independent. She acts as a mother figure and protects her little sister, Asha from their evil father. Her strength should be admired and praised while Chandin is not worthy of any empathy or compassion.
i believe that he is both predator and victim. However his role as predator outweighs his suffering as victim. As victim, Chandin was subject to social and racial prejudice. It can also be said that although yes it is true that his wife did leave him, he did not marry her for love. They were both in a loveless marriage. however his actions as a predator was unearthed as a sick desire hidden beneath the surface for years of feeling like an outsider in his community, and being unable for so long do describe or explain his sexual and emotional feelings.
Chandin Ramchandin is both a perpetrator and a victim. His victim status does not simply begin when his wife leaves him. From a young age his views on family were distorted and the persons he came to care for suddenly reminded him that he was still an outsider despite his attempts at imitation. Next, he was rejected by the one he loved after having decided to put everything on the line for her including being in good favour with her father. Finally,he realizes that he is not only unfavourable because of his race but because of his very sex. I don't know how many people really understanding how discrimination can unearth someone's mental health but it does. Am I saying that his actions were right? Never. If it were then it would not have had such a rippling effect on his children. However, was he innately evil? No. Most perpetrators were once preyed upon and I think that people need to remember that as well. I do think though, that his abuse of his daughters and wife was an outrageous manifestation of pain which was allowed to make its way into the lives of another generation in another format.
Chandin Ramchandin can be viewed as both perpetrator and victim, however, his character displays more of the former. The reader can identify with his `suffering` with that of his early life,and his view of himself and his real parents. His idea of himself drastically changes when he is adopted and his suppression of his former life to embrace the formalities and behaviors of his new `adopted` life display a weakness in his character to attain what may not necessarily be his. He can also be viewed a victim concerning his relationship with his adopted sister and wife. Firstly, the reader feels pity for him because he never attains the relationship he desires for with Luciana due to `relations` yet her former fiance, who happens to be her biological cousin , had the opportunity to have a relationship with her. It seems he could never have attained such a relationship with her but even his wife was able to and their impending departure fuels his apparent suffering. However, it is Chandin`s mind that makes him the more of a perpetrator. The fact that he desired a romantic relationship with someone who should be considered family initializes this character`s moral values. Also, his reasoning for his marriage and treatment of his wife shows how he never let og of this taboo desire. The most significant point for him being a perpetrator of course, is the treatment of his daughter. One can say that his mind was twisted of the event between his wife and Luciana. However, another approach for the sexual, physical and verbal abuse is his desire for revenge, as both Mala and Asha may symbolize His wife and Luciana. His treatment of his daughter can be interpreted as punishment for their mother`s and aunt`s decision and also as a punishment for society. A society that did not allow him to be romantically involved with Luciana but, probably in his mind, allowed for his wife to have a relationship with her.
Like I was saying in class on Thursday, I think the fact that the book provokes such a question says alot about Mootoo as a writer, a person and a victim (and I personally admire her alot for that). She doesn’t present a one-sided story of the despicable, pathetic and villainous Chandin who commits heinous acts against his daughter, but rather shows us the reason for his fall, the cause for his descent into a life of shame. She allows us to see who and what he becomes, but more importantly why this happens. She tells us that yes Chandin IS a PERPETRATOR, but he is ALSO a VICTIM. In my view, he suffers from what Arnold Itwaru calls ‘The Image of the Other’, to quote Itwaru: “The image of the other which inhabits him arrests his consciousness, therefore instead of resistance as a mobilization of his human capacities which will ultimately reflect his own humanity, we see a situation in which there is a negation of self, an imprisonment of vision which results in the emulation of the master and the self destruction this entails.” Like Dhanika pointed out, Chandin’s victimization occurs even before his wife leaves him for another, it really begins when Chandin is taken away from his ancestral home and begins living with the Thoroughlys. Colonialism and othering are factors which lead to the dislocation of identity and self-hatred which he lie at the heart of his suffering. Rebecca Ashworth notes, self-hatred is evident in the scene where after he rapes Mala he watches himself in the mirror and kicks it (no doubt a symbolic act). Chandin psyche is severely damaged and indeed it is very very very sad that his children pay the ultimate price.
I’m not saying that Mootoo justifies his actions, but rather, in giving us Chandin’s back story, in allowing a measure of sympathy to be elicited for this perpetrator, I believe what she does, is forces us to question own sense of humanity.
Okay, so Chandin Ramchandin is a predator. He pursued all his victims throughout the course of the novel and all because he had to face rejection? Clearly Chandin is not the victim! Describing Chandin as a victim is to legitimize all the heinous actions that he would eventually commit. Every man has a responsibility and there is no excuse for doing what is wrong and abhorred. The man’s psyche was disturbed on many levels and I could understand that all of it had an impact on him, but the deeper victims were his children who were abused by the hands that were to protect them. Look at Victim theories and Predator theories formulated from research. Chandin’s daughters suffered more trauma and are the true victims, which cannot be denied. Chandin is a criminal and the predator and it is difficult to sympathize with anyone who cannot use good sense to rationally find solutions to personal problems. Of course I agree that some of what happened to him was unfortunate, even unfair, which included Mr. Thoroughly dictating that he couldn’t love Lavinia in no other way but as a sister, or by the outright rejection by Lavinia and the eventual departure of both Lavinia and his wife. Yet his actions and reactions are not justified. He is the perpetrator of several acts of retribution, maybe even out of spite.He took advantage. Examples would include the marriage to Sarah, then the subsequent assault of her children in her absence. However, I do strongly agree with Rhianna Mckenzie’s contribution, especially where Chandin is described to be more as the perpetrator than victim, but, in my final analysis, he is the predator, not the victim!
Ok so I really feel strongly about this whole rape issue, especially if it's incestuos. Firstly, while I do take into consideration that he has been the victim of racial prejudice his entire life and that the woman he loves has no love for him, only his wife, I see how it may be hard to deal with. Even when they (his wife and sister) run away together, as a man, I understand that would probably be the most emasculation feeling. However, children are and have always been innocent. The social inequalities that Chandin has experienced do make him a victim to some extent but it does not excuse the torture he has put his daughters through. I would have to say that the heinous, unforgivable acts he has committed have eclipsed the fact that he was a victim. All I see in the end, is a pervert and a predator who got what he deserved much too late.
'im is a dutty perpetrator. A dutty criminal! Wait, that's too nice of a word. Anyhow, I can't think of the term right now but yes Devon, you said what I think I wanted to say, except the "unforgivable" part (Lord knows if the story were real I would have wanted that he repent and seek God's forgiveness). But is true. The man did real wickedness dey boy. Look how Pohpoh life geh mess up just so.
I believe that Chandin Ramchandin cannot only be viewed as a perpetrator. Though we may be swayed by our emotions and reservations about what he would have done, one must also not overlook the victimisation he would have undergone as well. Don’t get me wrong I am not in agreement with his actions or evils which he would have committed; I am merely stating that he was perpetuating a sick cycle of abuse.
While the reader is not insensitive to Chandin's situation, he is a perpetrator. Regardless of his reasons, he took away choice from his daughters and perpetrated the same rape and abuse which were evident in the slave/master narrative. Mootoo tries to make the act less heinous by softening the lead-up to the act: Chandin rolled over and “accidentally” mistook his daughter for his runaway wife yet later covers her mouth and proceeds to rape her and this becomes very much a daily ritual. His displaced anger towards the wife and a white woman who spurned him are now directed towards the present children who, for the rest of their lives, will have act as stand-ins with him. He never “comes to his senses” but rather rapidly degenerates. The Chandin we encounter later in the novel is so consumed by hatred that he has let all former ambitions go. Yes he may have been seen as a caricature of the colonial master, yet, had he applied himself and taken advantage of the opportunities and advantages afforded him, which were not open to other Indian children, he may have found himself in very different waters.
Chandin Ramchandin is indeed a perpetrator, taking into consideration the psychological as well as physical abuse and damage that led to Pohpoh's (Mala Ramchandin) insanity. While i understand the circumstances that led to his behavior, it is still difficult to elicit any feelings of sympathy towards him.Though he suffers as a victim of society and unrequited love, his actions towards his daughters are unjustified as he imposes as a threat rather than a protector as a parent. His conflicts cannot compare to the the continuous beatings, rape and abuse inflicted upon his daughter, thus it is difficult to engage in any compassion towards him.
I think that Chandin Ramchandin is more of a perpetrator than a victim. He is a victim because his wife left him and ran away with her female lover. He became a single father of two daughters. This is unfair to him but it does not justify his heartless and brutal actions towards his daughters. He deserves no pity for the ruthless things he did to his own flesh and blood. He is a criminal and he deserves to die the way he did at the end of the novel by the hands of the one whom tortured and oppressed for so long.
ReplyDeleteChandin is the true criminal and the novel's biggest coward. He is sinister, weak and uses his manhood as a weapon to oppress his own children by sexually, physically and mentally abusing them. Mala was wrongly accused and I think she is the hero in the story. She is resilient, strong, patient and independent. She acts as a mother figure and protects her little sister, Asha from their evil father. Her strength should be admired and praised while Chandin is not worthy of any empathy or compassion.
i believe that he is both predator and victim. However his role as predator outweighs his suffering as victim. As victim, Chandin was subject to social and racial prejudice. It can also be said that although yes it is true that his wife did leave him, he did not marry her for love. They were both in a loveless marriage. however his actions as a predator was unearthed as a sick desire hidden beneath the surface for years of feeling like an outsider in his community, and being unable for so long do describe or explain his sexual and emotional feelings.
ReplyDeleteChandin Ramchandin is both a perpetrator and a victim. His victim status does not simply begin when his wife leaves him. From a young age his views on family were distorted and the persons he came to care for suddenly reminded him that he was still an outsider despite his attempts at imitation. Next, he was rejected by the one he loved after having decided to put everything on the line for her including being in good favour with her father. Finally,he realizes that he is not only unfavourable because of his race but because of his very sex. I don't know how many people really understanding how discrimination can unearth someone's mental health but it does. Am I saying that his actions were right? Never. If it were then it would not have had such a rippling effect on his children. However, was he innately evil? No. Most perpetrators were once preyed upon and I think that people need to remember that as well. I do think though, that his abuse of his daughters and wife was an outrageous manifestation of pain which was allowed to make its way into the lives of another generation in another format.
ReplyDeleteChandin Ramchandin can be viewed as both perpetrator and victim, however, his character displays more of the former. The reader can identify with his `suffering` with that of his early life,and his view of himself and his real parents. His idea of himself drastically changes when he is adopted and his suppression of his former life to embrace the formalities and behaviors of his new `adopted` life display a weakness in his character to attain what may not necessarily be his. He can also be viewed a victim concerning his relationship with his adopted sister and wife. Firstly, the reader feels pity for him because he never attains the relationship he desires for with Luciana due to `relations` yet her former fiance, who happens to be her biological cousin , had the opportunity to have a relationship with her. It seems he could never have attained such a relationship with her but even his wife was able to and their impending departure fuels his apparent suffering. However, it is Chandin`s mind that makes him the more of a perpetrator. The fact that he desired a romantic relationship with someone who should be considered family initializes this character`s moral values. Also, his reasoning for his marriage and treatment of his wife shows how he never let og of this taboo desire. The most significant point for him being a perpetrator of course, is the treatment of his daughter. One can say that his mind was twisted of the event between his wife and Luciana. However, another approach for the sexual, physical and verbal abuse is his desire for revenge, as both Mala and Asha may symbolize His wife and Luciana. His treatment of his daughter can be interpreted as punishment for their mother`s and aunt`s decision and also as a punishment for society. A society that did not allow him to be romantically involved with Luciana but, probably in his mind, allowed for his wife to have a relationship with her.
ReplyDeleteLike I was saying in class on Thursday, I think the fact that the book provokes such a question says alot about Mootoo as a writer, a person and a victim (and I personally admire her alot for that).
ReplyDeleteShe doesn’t present a one-sided story of the despicable, pathetic and villainous Chandin who commits heinous acts against his daughter, but rather shows us the reason for his fall, the cause for his descent into a life of shame. She allows us to see who and what he becomes, but more importantly why this happens. She tells us that yes Chandin IS a PERPETRATOR, but he is ALSO a VICTIM. In my view, he suffers from what Arnold Itwaru calls ‘The Image of the Other’, to quote Itwaru: “The image of the other which inhabits him arrests his consciousness, therefore instead of resistance as a mobilization of his human capacities which will ultimately reflect his own humanity, we see a situation in which there is a negation of self, an imprisonment of vision which results in the emulation of the master and the self destruction this entails.” Like Dhanika pointed out, Chandin’s victimization occurs even before his wife leaves him for another, it really begins when Chandin is taken away from his ancestral home and begins living with the Thoroughlys. Colonialism and othering are factors which lead to the dislocation of identity and self-hatred which he lie at the heart of his suffering. Rebecca Ashworth notes, self-hatred is evident in the scene where after he rapes Mala he watches himself in the mirror and kicks it (no doubt a symbolic act). Chandin psyche is severely damaged and indeed it is very very very sad that his children pay the ultimate price.
I’m not saying that Mootoo justifies his actions, but rather, in giving us Chandin’s back story, in allowing a measure of sympathy to be elicited for this perpetrator, I believe what she does, is forces us to question own sense of humanity.
Okay, so Chandin Ramchandin is a predator. He pursued all his victims throughout the course of the novel and all because he had to face rejection? Clearly Chandin is not the victim! Describing Chandin as a victim is to legitimize all the heinous actions that he would eventually commit. Every man has a responsibility and there is no excuse for doing what is wrong and abhorred. The man’s psyche was disturbed on many levels and I could understand that all of it had an impact on him, but the deeper victims were his children who were abused by the hands that were to protect them. Look at Victim theories and Predator theories formulated from research. Chandin’s daughters suffered more trauma and are the true victims, which cannot be denied. Chandin is a criminal and the predator and it is difficult to sympathize with anyone who cannot use good sense to rationally find solutions to personal problems. Of course I agree that some of what happened to him was unfortunate, even unfair, which included Mr. Thoroughly dictating that he couldn’t love Lavinia in no other way but as a sister, or by the outright rejection by Lavinia and the eventual departure of both Lavinia and his wife. Yet his actions and reactions are not justified. He is the perpetrator of several acts of retribution, maybe even out of spite.He took advantage. Examples would include the marriage to Sarah, then the subsequent assault of her children in her absence. However, I do strongly agree with Rhianna Mckenzie’s contribution, especially where Chandin is described to be more as the perpetrator than victim, but, in my final analysis, he is the predator, not the victim!
ReplyDeleteOk so I really feel strongly about this whole rape issue, especially if it's incestuos. Firstly, while I do take into consideration that he has been the victim of racial prejudice his entire life and that the woman he loves has no love for him, only his wife, I see how it may be hard to deal with. Even when they (his wife and sister) run away together, as a man, I understand that would probably be the most emasculation feeling. However, children are and have always been innocent. The social inequalities that Chandin has experienced do make him a victim to some extent but it does not excuse the torture he has put his daughters through. I would have to say that the heinous, unforgivable acts he has committed have eclipsed the fact that he was a victim. All I see in the end, is a pervert and a predator who got what he deserved much too late.
ReplyDelete'im is a dutty perpetrator. A dutty criminal! Wait, that's too nice of a word. Anyhow, I can't think of the term right now but yes Devon, you said what I think I wanted to say, except the "unforgivable" part (Lord knows if the story were real I would have wanted that he repent and seek God's forgiveness). But is true. The man did real wickedness dey boy. Look how Pohpoh life geh mess up just so.
DeleteI believe that Chandin Ramchandin cannot only be viewed as a perpetrator. Though we may be swayed by our emotions and reservations about what he would have done, one must also not overlook the victimisation he would have undergone as well. Don’t get me wrong I am not in agreement with his actions or evils which he would have committed; I am merely stating that he was perpetuating a sick cycle of abuse.
ReplyDeleteWhile the reader is not insensitive to Chandin's situation, he is a perpetrator. Regardless of his reasons, he took away choice from his daughters and perpetrated the same rape and abuse which were evident in the slave/master narrative. Mootoo tries to make the act less heinous by softening the lead-up to the act: Chandin rolled over and “accidentally” mistook his daughter for his runaway wife yet later covers her mouth and proceeds to rape her and this becomes very much a daily ritual. His displaced anger towards the wife and a white woman who spurned him are now directed towards the present children who, for the rest of their lives, will have act as stand-ins with him. He never “comes to his senses” but rather rapidly degenerates. The Chandin we encounter later in the novel is so consumed by hatred that he has let all former ambitions go. Yes he may have been seen as a caricature of the colonial master, yet, had he applied himself and taken advantage of the opportunities and advantages afforded him, which were not open to other Indian children, he may have found himself in very different waters.
ReplyDeleteChandin Ramchandin is indeed a perpetrator, taking into consideration the psychological as well as physical abuse and damage that led to Pohpoh's (Mala Ramchandin) insanity. While i understand the circumstances that led to his behavior, it is still difficult to elicit any feelings of sympathy towards him.Though he suffers as a victim of society and unrequited love, his actions towards his daughters are unjustified as he imposes as a threat rather than a protector as a parent. His conflicts cannot compare to the the continuous beatings, rape and abuse inflicted upon his daughter, thus it is difficult to engage in any compassion towards him.
ReplyDelete